Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, at the time of death, when the soul leaves the body, at that time the body is destroyed. So at the time of sleeping, when the soul leaves the body, how is the body maintained?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee: At the time of sleeping, when the soul leaves the body, why is the body not destroyed at that time?

Prabhupāda: Why? Suppose you have left the car; does that mean it is destroyed? You are going again.

Devotee: But at the time of death it is destroyed when you leave it.

Prabhupāda: Death is different. When the car is no more usable, that is death. But we are returning to the car because we know that it is usable. And if we know that it is useless, we don't go to that car. That is death.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda. At the time of sleeping, there is a subtle reality that the subtle body enters into?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reality means as you take this awakening vision as reality, similarly, the dream vision is also real. Nothing... none of them are reality. They are all temporary.

Devotee (2): But that subtle reality is just as real as this gross reality?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll not stay. This reality will not stay.

Devotee (3): It's all a dreamlike existence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply a long duration dream. Do you think this skyscraper building will stay? Nothing will stay. It may stay for five hundred years or five thousand years, but is it not permanent. Anything you take—the trees, this land—nothing; even this ocean. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It appears again and again disappears, that's all. Everything. The material world means that. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. Vyaktāvyaktam. Sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. This town is manifested, and one big wave of the sea, it will be nonmanifested, immediately.

Devotee (2): So that subtle reality is existing side by side with this gross reality.

Prabhupāda: Reality is in the spiritual world. This is imitation reality. Real reality is in the spiritual world.

Devotee (3): The material universes are like a product of Mahā-Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: A big dream, that's all. Material existence means a big dream. How long you'll dream? So long you are in this body. And as long as the body is finished, your dream is finished. Your nation, your society, your friends, your money, your bank—everything finished. Is it not a dream? Then dream another—you become cats and dogs or demigods. You dream in a different dream. You are now dreaming as Americans; next life you may dream something else.

Devotee (4): So every man has his own world that he's living in?

Prabhupāda: Eh? He creates his own world. Nothing is own— temporary. He creates, and Kṛṣṇa gives him the opportunity, "All right, you enjoy." Hare nāma, hare nāma.

Devotee (5): While doing books we create an atmosphere sometimes, the devotees... Kṛṣṇa gives us the intelligence to give the spiritual world to these living entities. How can we always stay on that transcendental platform, to make them see this? (break)

Devotee (6): (in car) If the soul is the living force, if the soul actually leaves the body, how the body will be... work.

Devotee (7): There's some connection still. When the soul is... when the body... when you are dreaming, and the soul leaves the body, but still there must be some connection between the soul...

Prabhupāda: Connection is there, just like you leave your car, you keep the engine going on—gug-gug-gug-gug-gug-gug—but you are not there. The engine, you keep it started.

Devotee (7): Somehow the soul's influence is still there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You make that engine keeping—gug-gug-gug-gug. If you like, you can stop.

Devotee (6): Is it actually Kṛṣṇa who's maintaining the life in the body then? The life of the body is maintained by Kṛṣṇa or by the individual jīva?

Prabhupāda: No, by Kṛṣṇa. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's property. You are thinking, "It is mine." Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). I am the proprietor of this body, but another body is there. He is the proprietor of all the bodies. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. The landlord, he's the proprietor. You are occupier, that's all.

Devotee (7): Oh. So the Lord in the heart is keeping that body for that jīva, so that when he's finished dreaming he comes back to it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (7): It's actually the Lord that's keeping it...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Devotee (7): ...the engine going.

Prabhupāda: Maybe driver. Driver is left.

Devotee (7): Driver is left.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (7): Like chauffeur.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (7): Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. Kṛṣṇa has unlimited energies. Yesterday you were explaining in your garden to that priest that Kṛṣṇa, He says... Kṛṣṇa says: "I am the father of all living entities." And you were saying, "Who can challenge this or deny it?" Now someone can say that there is contradiction, there is some contradiction in Kṛṣṇa's statement, therefore...

Prabhupāda: Who can deny? Who can contradict this? That is my challenge. The contradiction is not valid. Who can contradict it? That is my challenge.

Devotee (7): Well, say in some philosophy...

Prabhupāda: Just like a father, real father can say: "I am the father." Who can challenge him? Father is one. Who can? Nobody can say: "No, you are not father, he's father." No. The real father is father. Father cannot be replaced.

Devotee (7): No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose real father says: "I am the father of this boy." Who will challenge it?

Devotee (7): Someone who does not believe my father.

Prabhupāda: That means he's a rascal. But father cannot be changed. He does not know; he challenges, that's all. But how the father can be changed? Father is one.

Devotee (7): We say that Kṛṣṇa is all-good.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (7): And then the materialist says, "If Kṛṣṇa is all-good, then how is there any evil?"

Prabhupāda: Evil is you.

Devotee (7): But everything comes from Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything comes from... yes. If... you have created a situation. So for your satisfaction, Kṛṣṇa has given you the chance. But that is evil, what you have created.

Devotee (7): But I have this propensity because I am part of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you come under māyā, you have got so many propensities. So as soon as you disobey Kṛṣṇa, the māyā is there. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare (Prema-vivarta), immediately. Just like darkness and light. As soon as you give up light, you come to darkness. There is no second alternative.

Devotee (7): Kṛṣṇa is the friend of everyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (7): So why does He allow me to have this independence?

Prabhupāda: No, that is His... why not?

Devotee (7): Because it is not good for me.

Prabhupāda: Then you are not perfectly Kṛṣṇa's aṁśa (part). Kṛṣṇa has got independence. You see one son is born, even a father has got a black spot here, sometimes the son has got black spot.

Devotee (7): But if it's not good for me, if I will misuse it, why would Kṛṣṇa give it to me anyway?

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore the demand is "You surrender, rascal. You are suffering. You surrender. That is your good..." Therefore He comes. He loves His sons, "You rascals, why you are creating plans? You come here. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). I shall give you all comforts."

Devotee (7): Kṛṣṇa knows everything in the past and everything in the future.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (7): So when Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa knows that I will misuse my independence, but still He gives me independence.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Devotee (7): Even though it is bad for me.

Devotee (6): You say Kṛṣṇa knows you are going to misuse your independence?

Devotee (7): Because He knows everything in the past and everything in the future. So He must... Kṛṣṇa is all-knowing.

Prabhupāda: This present, future means, just like a father knows the... how the child is. Now if the child changes and touches the fire, Kṛṣṇa knows it will burn. He knew when the child did not touch the fire, his future. And when he touched the fire, Kṛṣṇa knew the result. So He always knows. His position is to know the future. He's always... now you are changing what is the future due to your little independence.

Devotee (6): So can you actually say that Kṛṣṇa knows you'll misuse your independence? He knows if you misuse your independence what will happen, but can it be actually said that...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (6): ...He knows you will definitely misuse...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Devotee (6): can use your independence properly. It's up to you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (7): But then that limits Kṛṣṇa. If you say that Kṛṣṇa did not know when I will misuse my indep... or if I will...

Prabhupāda: No, no. That means you do not know what is the independence. You can... you can change your position at any time. That is your independence.

Devotee (7): But doesn't Kṛṣṇa know if I will do it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, because you are independent. That is the meaning.

Devotee (7): Marginal.

Prabhupāda: What will be, that will depend on... and the result He knows. Just as a lawyer knows that he has done this, criminal, he'll be punished like this. So His position to know the future is always there, either in this condition or other condition.

Devotee (7): But the lawyer doesn't...

Prabhupāda: Why Kṛṣṇa? Everyone knows. Suppose you have got this body; next body he's a dog, I can say you'll bark.

Devotee (7): Yes.

Prabhupāda: What you'll do? That's all. What to speak of Kṛṣṇa; I can say.

(Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk, Los Angeles, June 3, 1976)
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