Devotee (3): If one is fortunate enough to revive his natural position in the spiritual sky, how can he keep from falling down again? Like, if an entity is fortunate enough to revive his natural constitutional position in the spiritual sky, how can he keep from falling...
Prabhupāda: How your Nixon is dragged down? How your President Nixon is dragged down? He was in the exalted post, and why he was dragged down?
Devotee (4): They dragged him down.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was forced to come down. Why?
Devotee (2): He broke the rules.
Prabhupāda: Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the potency of coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become president, you are secure. If you are not perfect, then you will be dragged down. Or if you think imperfectly... The formula is that in the spiritual world everyone is engaged in the service of the Lord. There is no other conception, as in this material world everyone is engaged to serve his senses—he likes something, and he is engaged for that purpose. That service is there, but it is service to himself, his senses. But in the spiritual world there is no such thing as giving service to the senses. Simply giving service to the Lord. That is spiritual world. So as soon as you think that "Why shall I give service to Kṛṣṇa? Why not become independent?" you fall down immediately. So there is potency of thinking like that.
kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare
pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
(Prema-vivarta)
As soon as one forgets the service of the Lord and he wants to become himself Lord, immediately māyā will capture. This māyā means this material world.
Woman guest: In the Christian Bible it says that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and you can only get to God through him.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Woman guest: No. What is...? Do...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We admit that. He is the perfect son, and if you take shelter of the lotus feet of the perfect son, you go to back to home, back to Godhead. That's a fact.
Woman guest: Is that through Christ or...
Prabhupāda: Yes. As he advises. Just like he says, "Thou shall not kill." But if you kill, at the same time take shelter of Christ, what is the meaning? First of all you try to follow him; then you can go through him. But you don't care for him—what is the meaning of go through him?
Woman guest: Believe in him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Believe in strongly.
Woman guest: Believe that he is the son of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Believe or not believe, he is son. And if you are fortunate, you follow his path and you become perfect. You believe or not believe, God is there. Similarly, you believe or not believe, God's son is there, God's devotee is there, everyone is there. God is not alone. Just like if you say, "Now here the king is coming," "the king is coming" means he is coming with his ministers, his commander-in-chief, his secretaries and so many, hundreds of men, soldiers... Similarly, when we speak of God, God is not alone. He has got His sons, He has got His friends, He has got His father, He has got His mother, He has got His beloved—everything. That is God. Yes?
Guest (4): Who was Meher Baba?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? I do not know. (laughter) There are so many bogus Babas. I do not know. (laughter) What is the use of knowing Meher Baba? If I know Kṛṣṇa, that is sufficient. That's all. Why shall I go to know this and that? Hmm. That's all right. So is there a question...? All right, what is that question?
Devotee (5): Many people say, "No one can become perfect." How can we help them understand that there is...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No one is a perfect. Therefore you should take lessons from the perfect. That's all. Then you become perfect.
Devotee (5): The conception is not believed.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise why there are instructions just like Christ said, "Thou shall not kill"? That means "You are imperfect; therefore you are killing. Take my instruction. Don't do it. You become perfect." That's all. We are all imperfect. We have to take lesson from the perfect. Then we become perfect. Yes?
Devotee (6): Prabhupāda, what pleases you the most?
Prabhupāda: If you love Kṛṣṇa.
Devotees: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee (6): Prabhupāda, I would like to know if the Supersoul is, and the spirit soul, are they the same in the heart of...
Prabhupāda: Same is quality. But the individual soul is not exactly like the Supersoul. The Supersoul is within you and within me, within everywhere. But I, individual soul, I am only within me; you are within you. That is the difference. I cannot feel your pains and pleasure; neither you can feel my pains and pleasure. Therefore we are individual. But Supersoul, because He is in everyone's heart, He knows what is going on in everyone's body. That is Supersoul. Therefore He is called Supersoul. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). Supersoul, He is God. He can expand Himself in millions and millions of places. But I cannot do that; you cannot do that.
Devotee (6): Prabhupāda, if our body should meet death while engaged in your service, will our transmigration be protected in the auspicious...?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee (2): He says if our body should meet death while performing devotional service, will we be protected in transmigrating?
Prabhupāda: There are two kinds of bodies—the gross body and the subtle body. The gross body is a material combination of earth, water, air, fire, ether, and the subtle body is combination of mind, intelligence and ego. So this gross body and subtle body, within that, there is the spirit soul. So that is eternal. And this gross body and subtle body is changing according to the change of the situation. So when you remain in your spiritual body, that is eternal. Therefore to keep in spiritual body is to accept devotional service. Then you are beyond this material gross body and subtle body. You remain in your spiritual body. And if you give up this body—at the time of death means giving up this body—then in spiritual body you go to back to home, back to Godhead. So in order to keep yourself in spiritual body you should always be engaged in devotional service, and that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:
māṁ ca yo ‘vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)
Then you become Brahman, or spirit soul. Yes?
Devotee (7): How... In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it states that to understand Kṛṣṇa and to improve our relationship with Him we must understand the spiritual master. What is the best way to understand him?
Devotee (2): (explaining) He says that it states in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that to understand Kṛṣṇa, the best way is to understand the spiritual master. What is the best way to do that?
Prabhupāda: If you want to learn something, so you must learn from a person who knows that something. The spiritual master's business is that he knows Kṛṣṇa well. So you try to understand Kṛṣṇa through him. This is the idea. Yes?
Devotee (8): Śrīla Prabhupāda, the material scientists... Unfortunately, many people have put their faith in the material scientists today. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...go to moon, what benefit you derive? You will die also. So anywhere you go within this material world, birth, death, old age and disease will follow. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,
ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān
punar āvartinaḥ arjuna
yad gatvā na nivartante
tad dhāma paramam
(BG 8.16)
Instead of going to moon planet, why not engage your energy for going to back to home, back to Godhead, wherefrom you will not come back again? Yes?
Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Sikh Dharma they say to chant the holy names of God, and so far I haven't encountered the name "Kṛṣṇa" in the scriptures. I have encountered "Govinda," "Mukunda," "Rāma" and..., but the main name that is chanted is Waheguru. And I was wondering if you could comment on..., on the Sikh Dharma.
Prabhupāda: It is very good. It is very good. Guru Nanak, he chanted the name, holy name of Rāma, the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, Govinda. So if we follow Guru Nanak, we are fortunate. Anyone who presents a science of God, it doesn't matter whether he is this man or that man; he is our guru. Yes?
Girl guest: Why is it all right to kill any plants? How are they different from animals?
Devotee (2): She is asking, "What is the difference between killing a plant and eating it and killing an animal and eating it?"
Prabhupāda: The same fault. Either you kill animal or plant, the same sin is there. Just like if you kill an uncivilized and if you kill a big man, the punishment is the same---hanging. You cannot say that "I have killed one uncivilized man." No. That you cannot do. Similarly, you cannot kill even plant. But we have to live. Therefore we can kill plant under the order of the Supreme. Just like I have already explained. Kṛṣṇa said, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Patraṁ means plant. So Kṛṣṇa wants it. So for Kṛṣṇa's sake we can do that. Just like Arjuna did. Arjuna did not like to kill his brothers, but Kṛṣṇa said that "This is My desire." "All right, I shall kill." This is kṛṣṇa-bhakti. When Kṛṣṇa says, we can do everything, not for our personal self.
Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ (BG 3.13). That another crude example—just like a soldier. When he is fighting by the order of the state, he is getting gold medal and killing. His business is killing. But the same man, when he comes home, if he kills one person, then he is hanged. Why? He could say that "My business is killing. I am soldier. I have killed this man." "No. This is for your account. On the battlefield you killed for the state's account; therefore you were eulogized. You were given reward." Similarly, we can kill only on the order of the Supreme. Otherwise we cannot kill even a plant. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Yajña means for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, whatever you do, you are not implicated with sinful activities. And bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13), and a person who is doing on his own capacity, he is simply acquiring sinful resultant action.
So the conclusion is—even a plant you cannot kill, what to speak of bigger animals. If one thinks that "I am killing only plants; therefore I am very pious, vegetarian," no. There is no question of vegetarian, nonvegetarian. They are equally sinful. Only those who are taking prasādam, they are free from sinful activities. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. All right, thank you... Again? More questions? (laughter) All right, one more question.
Devotee (9): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we're performing devotional service and an insect is in the way, like if you're painting the walls and you find this ant and you must paint this wall to please the spiritual master, what is the attitude?
Prabhupāda: I have already said. You cannot kill even an ant without permission. So if you want to kill, you should take permission of higher authorities.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda!
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, Atlanta, March 2, 1975)
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